Hei Elisa, thanks so much for agreeing to this interview with us. To bring our readers up to speed, we got to know each other through a previous job when you were living in New Zealand.
Yes, New Zealand holds a special place in my heart as I began my digital marketing career there during my working travel adventure. I landed my first real marketing job in Auckland and couldn’t be more thankful for that experience.
Q. What's different about working in Finland compared to working in New Zealand? Do you notice any differences working in marketing?
The biggest differences, obviously, come from local legislation and working culture, even though they didn’t differ as much as I expected.
One big difference is that we Finns take free time seriously: most offices are, for example, closed for the whole of July (our summertime) as people take four weeks off, and during that time no emails are sent, or phone calls are made. This sometimes comes as a surprise to foreigners. If you do business with a Finn during July, please don’t get offended — just remember they are most likely fishing, sleeping, going to the sauna, skinny-dipping, and picking fresh berries from the forest at their summer cabin. They will get back to you once their holiday is over. Because of our remote Northern Europe location, our summers are very nice but short, and we want to make the most of it in order to survive the dark, cold winter.
What was interesting to me was that in New Zealand, your contract lists a certain number of sick days. In Finland, we don’t specify the number of sick days beforehand. Simply put: if you are sick and unable to work, you are on sick leave as long as you need it with a doctor's permit. Finnish work culture is tightly-connected to collective agreements and unions which comes with its pros and cons.
Another difference that I noticed is the social aspect of work. I really enjoyed going for a drink or dinner with my coworkers after work in New Zealand, whereas it is not so common in Finland. Of course, it depends a lot on the company and the size of the team, but I feel the working culture in New Zealand is a bit more sociable than in Finland.
Marketers in both countries utilise marketing methods and tools in a similar way. Marketing in New Zealand, however, tends to be a bit more experimental and relaxed, a “test‑and‑learn” approach, whereas in Finland it is generally more reliant on established practices and proven methods. I’ve also noticed that each country has their own ”locally approved” marketing tools as well, for example, for marketing automation and EDMs — Custobar and LianaMailer are common in Finland.
Since being back in Finland, you’ve completed a master’s degree in International Business Management.
Q. Can you tell us a little about that research? What surprised you most about your findings?
My master’s degree thesis focused on understanding customer-centric business strategy. The idea for the thesis came from my personal experiences as a customer. I had various bad experiences in situations that could’ve been changed into positive experiences with quite small effort. I started to wonder if business owners didn’t care about the customer experience or understand this topic, or if this was from a lack of available information. As I am dreaming of having my own company one day, I decided to dig deeper into the topic, learn the tools and steps, and gather all this information into a useful guidebook that both I other small business owners could use.
What surprised me the most was that information about customer-centric business strategy was scattered all around, and it was quite hard to find, as there were many terminologies used in different sources. I was amazed to learn that there are many useful and easy-to-use tools which any business owner can use to build their strategy. Customer-centricity is really not a difficult concept. In my opinion, it begins with putting customers first: recognising that your business exists for them and ensuring that your potential employees are trained to embrace this mindset. After this, it is easier to start building your actual strategy to develop the business.
My master’s thesis is available to view online here: ‘Understanding customer-centric business strategy: case study and practical guide’ (2024).
Finnish women are known for being confident and self-assured. I remembered this when we met in Milan a couple of years ago! And you recently had a government led by mostly women under Sanna Marin, famous for being Finland’s youngest Prime Minister (34) and having 'a life outside the office'.
Q. Do you feel this feminine leadership coming through in the work culture too? And what do you think Kiwis can learn from the Fins?
I do feel feminine leadership coming through in the work culture in Finland. It is more and more often that you see females in managerial, corporate boards and in higher leadership positions. Women are respected, and I am very thankful that, as a woman, I can do whatever I want in Finland. There are still, however, issues, challenges and work to do.
I don’t work in a leadership role, but a few times throughout my career, I have experienced my professionalism and ideas being questioned because I am a young woman, often by men but also by other women with more years of experience. It felt like I was seen as “some little girl” who just suggests whatever comes to her mind with no knowledge about anything. I value experience myself, too, but sometimes I wonder if you really need 20 years of experience to make a decision or impact on something.
Experience matters, but in digital marketing, it’s creativity and fresh ideas that truly drive success, in my opinion. In my current job, I’ve seen how amazing ideas and skills, for example, fresh students have! So what Kiwis (and Finns too) can overall learn is that years of experience don’t always guarantee quality or success. Listen to the person’s ideas first before judging! And for all women: know your value in the work environment. If one employer doesn’t respect your ideas and professional skills, go somewhere else!
Q. Any final thoughts?
Thank you very much for the interview! This was a nice change to my daily life since I am currently on parental leave, taking care of my little one. And because the holiday season is almost here, I cannot leave this truth out: Santa Claus lives in Finland :)
